How an Aerospace Engineer Is Reimagining Watchmaking

Welcome to The Micro Collector, a podcast where I talk with the founders and operators behind some of the most exciting microbrands and independent watch companies. I'm your host, Justin Dorfman, and in today's episode, I'm joined by Mickey Brown, Co-Founder and CEO of Parivas. I was first introduced to Mickey through a mutual friend, and after learning more about what he and the team were building, I was immediately intrigued. Mickey comes from aerospace engineering and additive manufacturing rather than traditional watchmaking, and Parivas is using that background to approach both the design and construction of a watch in a very different way.

In this conversation, we talk about Mickey's personal connection to watches, his career in aerospace, and how those two worlds eventually came together to create Parivas. We also dive deep into the Exo.1, the six-year journey to bring the watch to life, how additive manufacturing allows them to create structures that wouldn't be possible through traditional methods, and the process behind making each watch.

If you enjoy the episode, be sure to subscribe for more conversations with the people behind these incredible watch brands. And with that, please enjoy my conversation with Mickey Brown of Parivas.

All right, Mickey, welcome to The Micro Collector podcast. I'm super excited to have you on today.

Thanks. Really excited to be here, Justin.

Absolutely. You know, it's funny, we got connected by a mutual friend. So Kian Fattahi is a good college friend of mine, and I believe your kids are friends and maybe in the same school. So I got a text from him one day and he said, "Hey, you know, I've got a friend that's launching this really cool watch brand. Maybe he'd be a good guest for the podcast." And, you know, I get that from time to time now that I've had this podcast, but after chatting with you for an hour or so and learning about what you're actually building, I have to say it's really rare to find somebody building something so unique, right? And so different, bringing something so new to the watch space.

So you were pre-launch, we had to wait a little bit of time, but I'm super excited to have you on today and really to share what you're building, because as I said, it's really, really interesting and really different.

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, this is certainly a conversation in the making. And, you know, the more I get into the watch world, the more I realize and appreciate how small it is. And that, you know, even a friend of my son's dad at school is still part of how I'm making new inroads and meeting great people just like yourself.

Very cool. Well, why don't we start with a little bit of your background and your story? So tell us, actually, before we get into the brand and the company itself, I know you have a story about how you got into watches as well, right? And that tends to be a common path. So maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and how you first got into watches.

Yeah, I love the start here. You know, like many people, watches are incredibly personal and very passionate to me. It's a very significant part of the bond and the relationship between my dad, my brother, and myself. And so there's a familial tradition, or a generational tradition, that we have where upon reaching your first milestone, the father buys or passes down a watch to the deserving and earning son.

And so I got my first watch from my dad, and it was a very significant bonding moment when I graduated college, because we had talked about it for a very long time and went to pick it out. And so there was so much meaning and significance about not just what the watch meant, but also the bond that it was continuing to reinforce with my dad. And then I know my — exact same experience, and we got to enjoy that together.

And so watches have always been something incredibly deep and personal and meaningful to me. And so, you know, that's always in the back of my mind, especially coming up as an engineer, where watches are arguably one of mankind's greatest engineering achievements. And so always thinking about tying in my technical foundation with something I so deeply personally love was this seed that started super, super early on for me. And so as I grew as an engineer and had opportunities to pursue and understand watchmaking from a technical standpoint, it only became almost more and more inevitable that this is where I'd end up building something like Parivas.

I love that mix of your family history and your personal connection to watches with your professional. Let's go a little bit deeper into that professional side. So I think that's what makes your approach to what you're building so unique, is you come from this engineering background and not sort of a traditional watchmaking background. So tell us a little bit about your background in engineering and sort of how those two parts of your life, your professional and your personal, came together to start Parivas.

Yeah, so my background is a mechanical aerospace engineer. And so, you know, a very traditional engineering path, but it has nothing to do with watchmaking whatsoever. And so when I was in graduate school, I had an advisor. We were doing CNC machining analysis and investigations to try to understand how we could improve the accuracy and performance of CNC machines, which, you know, in layman's terms, is simply just machines that cut material out of stock, as opposed to what we're doing at Parivas, which is additive, where you build material up.

And so he assigned everybody, all of his graduate research associates, he assigned everybody to build something that showcased what these machines were truly capable of. And, you know, a lot of people picked these very intricate things, like a miniature Eiffel Tower or a hundred-to-one scale Harley-Davidson. And, you know, when people made these things, they were masterful, like even just machining the brake handles on a Harley, where you're like, "Can you appreciate how thin this had to be at a hundred-to-one scale?"

And when I was thinking about what to do for myself, I wanted something that was functional. I wanted something that I could use that wasn't just a very pretty desk ornament. And so that kind of first sprouting of the seed of, like, what if I actually built a watch? What if I built something I could wear and enjoy that still showed what the manufacturing technology is capable of? I'm just, you know, checking all these boxes. And the reality is that at that time, I was a little late in my program, a little late in my thesis, to kind of start something like this over from the beginning. So I ended up graduating before I actually finished the watch. And, you know, I kind of just committed myself to shelving the idea, putting it on the back burner, and I would come back to it when the time was right, when the opportunity presented itself.

And so then going truly into the aerospace world, I was working at Raytheon and had kind of niched myself as one of their additive manufacturing experts, just someone who took on projects specifically in that domain until I learned the technology well enough that I became a resource internally for the company. And I was flown around the country to talk to startups doing additive machines and everybody who was really on the bleeding edge of what additive was capable of. And so I understood the entire landscape of the industry.

And there was a certain point, I don't remember exactly what it was, but I was designing these lattice architectures for fighter jets to remove weight so that, you know, the performance was better and higher and more efficient. And I had this light bulb epiphany that I could design those types of structures, but instead of it going into a system where, when they rivet down the hatch, no one will ever see what I build, no one will ever appreciate it. And, you know, as an engineer, when I pour my heart into something, you want to take pride in it, but this, you know, goes into a black box where nobody's allowed to touch it.

So the idea to then build a watch and put that same, you know, engineering rigor and design effort into a watch that isn't just something that people can see, it's something that people can love and that people can touch. And so that for me was like the ultimate culmination of the technical skills that I had been developing, as well as feeding that personal need to be connected with watches.

Yeah. And I know it wasn't sort of a straight path, right? It wasn't just a light bulb moment and then you sort of created this watch and launched it and all that. It took a long time, right, to bring it to market. I think you told me it took like six years or something. Why did it take so long, and sort of what were some of the obstacles or challenges that you had to overcome to eventually get to where you are today, where this watch is now out there in the market?

Yeah, so you're exactly right. It took six years for us to be able to build this watch and have it actually — and I'll show you one. I have another one sitting right next to me that I'm not wearing, but, you know, so that everyone can kind of see and appreciate this lattice architecture that is the case. You know, it's not just an aesthetic, it's not a facade on the surface, but the entire case is built with a lattice architecture.

And there were really two things that drove the timeline and why this was such a challenge. The first one is that I'm not a watchmaker. So building a watch, not just without any of the training, but building it with a very, very new and modern technology, there was no blueprint. There was no roadmap. We had to figure out the entire construction, you know, irrespective of manufacturing, but just the assembly of the watch, how to integrate the movement, because we have layers that are integrated in a way that no other watch has. And so there's the really fun but also really challenging engineering hurdle, because it's completely open-ended. There's no right answer and there's no wrong answer. We just need to figure out what works for us. So there was a massive design effort on that side to be able to produce and construct this watch.

The second thing that really was the timeline driver is the technology wasn't there for additive manufacturing. You know, we actually had the design done. So we started in 2020. We had the design done before 2022. And then we had to wait four years for additive manufacturing to reach a level of fidelity and quality that we felt was the demand, or the requirement, of the watch industry. Because just because it can be constructed, if it doesn't look good or if it doesn't have that element of refinement, it's not going to be well received.

You know, the watch industry is so meticulous and so exacting in its detail, which is one of the things that makes it so fun, and that I love so much about it. But now I'm one of the people being judged for it. And so, you know, we had to actually work with the 3D printing companies that make the printers themselves to refine the quality and capability of their technology, and be able to communicate what we needed and why it had to go that direction, so that this watch was something we could actually produce.

And you mentioned "we," right? Who makes up the team, and who is the founding team? I think it's other folks that you worked with at Raytheon, is that correct?

Yeah, so Parivas is comprised of four co-founders. So when I had the idea, just as you said, I was working at Raytheon, and the first person I brought on, his name's Justin Chang, and he, like me, is another mechanical engineer and die-hard watch-loving enthusiast. And, you know, having worked together in the corporate world, I knew that it would translate to the startup world. And so I already knew his skill set. We already had a really good balance with one another and a good working dynamic. So this was not something that I considered a risky decision, because, you know, I only brought on people who I unequivocally trust. And he and I balanced each other very well as engineers.

The next person I brought on was Jared Woods. He's a marketing and creative content wizard. He executes at the speed of like four or five people. And I'm pretty sure that if there was a way to measure it, he might love Parivas more than I do.

And then the last person I brought on, to help keep us all sane and on the right side of things, is a great gentleman named Brian Cohen, who also was with us at Raytheon. Jared, I met on a ski lift in Mammoth, but Brian was a contracts manager at Raytheon and just very, very nuanced in protecting the company that he works for, and with a background in finance, kind of rounding out this team to be able to construct the pillars to prop up this company.

Yeah, I can tell you have a killer core team, and it shows, right? Like when I go onto your website, it doesn't look like this is a startup brand. You know, the quality of the messaging, the positioning, the clarity of description in terms of additive manufacturing and what you're doing, and the quality of the imagery, right, and the videos, show for a much more developed company than what you're at, you know, right now. So it's a good sign, I think, for what's ahead.

You mentioned additive manufacturing, that term, a couple of times. For somebody that's maybe not so familiar, for instance, I wasn't familiar with the term prior to learning about it through you guys, maybe tell us a little bit about what additive manufacturing is, and maybe through the lens of the Exo.1, right? You showed us a little bit about the lattice architecture. Maybe you can tell us about how you use additive manufacturing to actually create that watch, how it's different from a traditional process when somebody goes about creating a watch, and also what aspects of the watch are completely unique to additive manufacturing? Like you would not be able to achieve such a thing in a traditional method.

Yeah, absolutely. So additive manufacturing is kind of the umbrella term that 3D printing falls under. So there are a lot of ways to 3D print or additively manufacture, but in its most basic form, it's simply building up a product, or building up material, rather than starting with a certain block of material and removing it.

And so the way that the process works is, our 3D printing process specifically, and I'll speak to that, is a very, very meticulous five-stage process. And we're talking about millions of dollars' worth of infrastructure and equipment in order to run something with this level of fidelity. And so the first thing you have to do is you build the part up layer by layer, where you have a powder vat that gets scraped over a build surface, and then a laser comes in, or in our case, a projector, that helps to bind a 30-micron layer of just the geometry at that height in the watch case. And this goes on for the course of roughly eight hours, is the time to print our watch.

And so once the geometry is constructed, then it goes through what's called decaking, where you get all the residual powder that wasn't binded out of the way. So the cleaning process here is incredibly meticulous, because the part is not solidified as a metal alloy, be it stainless steel or titanium. Think of it like a chalk texture. So if somebody hits it with a cleaning nozzle, and this is all done by hand, and they put a little divot in it, trash. And so if somebody uses too much pressure and accidentally overblows a surface and changes the texture, trash. So you can imagine that this process has a ton of attrition in and of itself.

And then after that, it goes through debinding, where what's holding the metal together gets baked out and removed. And then the last step is sintering, where it actually combines the raw elements into the metal alloy. And while you were asking your question, I took the liberty of — this is what a watch case looks like after this multi-stage printing process. So you can see, you know, the back is solid, there's nowhere to put a movement. There are some other more nuanced details, like the indices are incredibly tall, and those all have to get machined down and reworked. But what's important is the entire lattice in the exterior of the case is constructed already. So out of the printer, the watch, including having indices as part of this monolithic structure, is already nearly 85% finished.

So after that point, then you go into the subtractive process, which is how you get the really tight tolerances and surface finishes, so that you know that all the watch parts will actually come together and that you'll create that watertight seal. But the skill you have to have as a machinist to work with this, because every single one is a little bit different, takes a tremendous, tremendous amount of skill and expertise and patience. And, you know, when we go on the CNC — you can see how we've already had attrition. We've already lost parts through the printing process. And then it goes on the CNC, which is where everyone else starts their process. So, you know, that's a little bit of background and context into what we go through and how big of a lift this is, just so that a watch like this can exist.

You know, as a watch collector and watch enthusiast, I think we love hearing the process by which the watches are made. And I know, for instance, with enamel dials, people love hearing about sort of the layering and all, and, you know, how many pieces actually get thrown away because it's such a delicate process, right? I can imagine you guys — first of all, you've gotten really, really good at explaining it, because, you know, now I think I really understand how it all comes together, and things that I learned through what you just said, like the indices are already there. It's so interesting, right?

I can imagine at shows, people, first of all, they're drawn to the design, right? And sort of the unique architecture of the case. And then when they hear the story, they probably get drawn in, right? And it gets really, really interesting for them. So I can imagine at the shows coming up, you're going to have to be talking about this over and over again. You're obviously passionate about it, but you might need to save your voice, because you're going to lose it through describing the process.

Beyond the case and the indices and what you just showed us, it seems you've also taken a different approach than a lot of new watch brands in even your movement, right? Like you have a custom movement that you've created, right? You know, you've built upon a Sellita movement, but you've customized that movement.

Yes.

And you even have a precision program, which I think is something that probably most new brands don't have, right? If you look at most microbrands out there, maybe they get there eventually with a customized movement and sort of a precision program. But at the beginning, they're probably taking something like a Miyota movement and just putting it in there, and sort of trusting the fact that Miyota is a reputable brand and, you know, that their movements are well tested. I'm curious why it was so important for you right off the bat to have that customized movement and to have that precision program in place.

Yeah, that's an awesome question, because I really like talking about the relationship between the movement and the watch. And so as we were selecting the movement we wanted to use, the first and probably most obvious consideration is the aesthetic of the movement has to work with and fit and make sense with the larger watch structure and aesthetic, because this watch is a skeleton. So we know this is part of how the watch is judged, and part of how the balance of the aesthetic is going to be analyzed. The other thing that we needed to make sure of was that it blended with the modern, you know, bleeding-edge technology that surrounded it.

So what we really, really wanted to show, and one of the reasons we're so excited that the Exo.1 is a skeleton as our first offering to the public and to launch the brand, is to show how the kind of Swiss traditional element of our watch seamlessly coexists with this very intricate, supermodern case design. And that it's not overwhelming. You're not kind of drawn one way or the other, but there's this balance and this harmony between the two. And so part of how we, you know, made sure to customize this movement was we wanted it to stand on its own, to make sure that, you know, the movement kind of had that same level of gravity and intricacy as the watch case, but such that it doesn't fall away into the background of the aesthetic, but also doesn't end up overpowering it. So that balance was actually incredibly difficult to strike.

So, you know, a few of the things we did: we made sure that all of the core pieces and the bridges were rhodium plated, because that brightness is huge on a watch movement, and it gives it that really, really elegant, almost whiteness, as a platinum family member, to the finish. And then we made sure that it had a soleillage decoration, because you only have so much surface area to work with with a skeleton, right? So when it comes to decorating, it wouldn't make sense for us to put perlage or Geneva stripes or anything that really needs large, consistent surfaces. So to have a soleillage decoration still gave the movement kind of some light play of its own to counterbalance with the indices and the lattice structure. So the whole point was that the movement was harmoniously balanced with such an intricate and detailed case.

And then the next thing that you alluded to was our precision chronometer program that we developed in concert with the Horological Society of New York, because I always have appreciated when a watch is chronometer certified. Do watches need it, especially in today's day and age? No. But one of the things that I really emphasize, because it's important to highlight, you know, we're incredibly transparent as a company in that we are not watchmakers in a traditional sense. We are not trained watchmakers. So we established this program so that you didn't have to simply trust us that the movement was going to perform, that it is going through a chronometer test that's actually more rigorous and more practical than that of COSC. And so this way you have even more peace of mind as a buyer and a customer that the watches are not just artistic, but they're actually incredibly high performing.

You know what I love about your approach is it's this perfect balance of respecting the tradition of watchmaking while bringing something so new to it, right? You've got this incredibly unique process of developing the case, right, with the additive manufacturing, yet you're respecting the piece of the watch that comes from, you know, history, right? The movement, right? And the tradition of that, right? I think that's really cool.

And also the play on the design, right? We didn't talk about this so much, so maybe you can touch on it a little bit, but the Solar Dusted finishing of the watch, being a completely unique finish that can't be achieved in any other way, with the soleillage, right? Which is something maybe more traditional. I think this play on respecting the tradition while bringing in new flavor is just such an amazing angle, right, to have within your story. But yeah, maybe talk a little bit about the Solar Dusted finishing.

Yeah, so that was something that we did not plan in our process. And, you know, that's also been one of the fun parts of this entire effort, is that we get surprised. And, you know, sometimes we just don't know how things are going to turn out. And more often than not, it's something that we didn't plan or expect, and we're like, we need to keep this. This is something that, you know, we're discovering new things to offer the watch community that we didn't plan. And I think that just reinvigorates the excitement of what we've been doing.

And so on the surface that the indices float out off of, that they're cantilevered from, that is an angled surface that helps from an overall aesthetic. We wanted to keep that simple as a transition from the lattice to the movement, to almost give people this breath of fresh air. Because otherwise, if we added too much intricacy there too, there's no transition, and aesthetically it could just be a little overwhelming. And so we wanted this surface to be kind of this piece to help separate the two, and allow you to appreciate the movement or the lattice independent of one another, if that was the view that you were trying to get.

And so what we noticed, though, was that the microstructure of the surface, when you build something angled using our 3D printing process, creates this light refraction in almost all directions at once. So it has this kind of glistening effect. And then when you look even closer, through a loupe or something, or through your phone, you can see — and this is one of the things that is so fascinating to me as an engineer — that even though you know that this watch was built layer by layer, the lines between the layers on this surface, they're not horizontal. After sintering, it restructured, and it created this wave-like fluidity that kind of runs through different sections of the surface.

And that also means that every single watch has its own kind of fingerprint. Every single one kind of distorted in its own unique way, depending on how the print went, how the cleaning went, and every single micro interaction factors into what that resulting surface texture looks like.

And then, kind of to bring it all home, the reason we call it Solar Dusted is because that glistening effect is most radiantly and brilliantly brought out in natural sunlight. And so, I mean, it's one of those things where we were just in shock and awe with the result, and, you know, being able to offer a new finish or a new texture to the watch industry. I mean, I don't know who the first person to showcase brushed or satin was, you know, whenever that happened, many decades, if not centuries, ago. You know, it's one of my favorite parts about the resulting product that we've created.

And the fact that, you know, every one is unique. I think that's something that I know collectors love, right? It's something that, for instance, when they talk about, you know, bronze as a material for a case, right? The fact that it patinas in a very unique way with every single watch. People love that stuff, right? So it's built into your finish, which is really, really cool.

The other thing that I learned in sort of digging into your approach that is really ambitious as an early-stage brand is the fact that you guys do everything yourself in-house, right? The design, but also, as you know, I would imagine, the assembly is done in-house, right? And the testing is all done in-house. Tell me about the thinking there, and why that also was so important to you to bring that in-house.

I mean, this is something that is fundamental to me as an engineer. It was not even an option or a consideration to have someone else do it. You know, when you have the technical team also leading the company and steering the ship, as an engineer myself, the person who is assembling the watches, testing the watches, you know, Justin being the other person who does that right alongside me, if a watch ever was delivered that underperformed or showed signs of any sort of negligence in our process, I would take that incredibly personally.

So for me, it's more about having complete control over knowing that the watches that we green-light to be delivered are watches that check every single box. And so it was not something we chose to do over anything else. It simply was: this is our path, this is who we are. And that will never change.

I hope this is a compliment, but I get sort of Apple, Steve Jobs vibes from you, from the brand, in the sense that, you know, I come from the tech world, and Steve Jobs is, you know, obviously a guy that there are many stories about, but one that is told over and over again is just the focus on integrated process, where everything at Apple is really done within the Apple ecosystem, right? To control the quality and the experience as a whole. Right. And also making sure that, you know, the finishing of the product, even in parts that are not seen externally, is treated with, you know, an attention to detail as if it is seen externally, right? And I feel there's a lot that you're bringing to watches, and this particular watch, that sort of has that essence.

You know, you don't come from the traditional watchmaking world, right? How are you sort of approaching this? Like, what are, I guess, the advantages that you think you have as somebody that doesn't come from the traditional watchmaking world that allow you to sort of think differently here? And maybe on the other side of the coin, what are some of the things that were most challenging for you to figure out because you don't come from this world?

Yeah, so I mean, the biggest and probably most fundamental advantage that we have, especially because we're using modern technology, which, just in the broad scheme of the watch industry, has not really been adopted yet. But the biggest advantage we have in being not watchmakers is that we don't know the rules. We don't know how to break them or follow them. We don't know what questions not to ask, which means that for us, everything is on the table. We have no boundaries, we have no limits, and our only kind of guiding lights are: is this the best version of what we can come up with? Can we produce it? And do we think that it will be well received?

And ultimately, that's one of the reasons why, throughout the design process and the development process, we took every single opportunity to ask ourselves, you know, without really knowing how watches are conceived and constructed in a design phase. You know, most collectors, and even probably most brand owners, there are a lot of them who don't really know why the inner workings are constructed and assembled exactly the way that they are. There may have been a lot of mistakes made early on, and that helped to set the industry on a very specific course for "this is how we are going to build watches." And, you know, in many cases, I don't think there's been a lot of deviation.

And so, for us, not just because we didn't know what questions to ask, but because we already knew at a fundamental level we were designing differently, we were going to have to change some of those rules. We were going to have to break them and rewrite them so that they could work for us. And so, you know, this is really just the beginning. This is the first offering, the first version that has come to life.

And, you know, one of the things you alluded to was that this took a very long time. This took six years, where our website and our social media present much more mature than that. Well, when you're waiting for technology to catch up, you have time to think and sit with it and build kind of those foundational elements of a business and a brand, in how you want to be perceived, and really, really take your time to answer some of these difficult, you know, technical questions that are very fundamental to the industry because of how much legacy and heritage is baked into it.

So, you know, to then transition to the other part of your question, about things that may have been challenging, the answer in many ways is kind of the same. You know, there was no inherent knowledge. There were no inherent lessons learned from people who had been in the industry for years and years and years. And so we've had to make mistakes, and we have had to figure out how to work through them and overcome a lot of challenges that maybe other brands already had some trivial solution to, that may have been very simple, but we learned everything from the ground up as we have been building this.

Now, we've talked a lot about how you're taking a very different approach and the product is so different as a result. And there are obviously many benefits to that, right? It's a differentiated story, it's eye-catching. As people learn about how you've produced these watches, they get drawn in, right? On the other side of the coin, you know, the watch is $7,500, which is an investment. At the same time, there's a lot that goes into it, right? So I definitely think the work that goes into it lines up with the investment. But people see the price tag, they see this new brand they don't know much about, right? They see this new design that's very different, and this new process of creating a watch that's different. There needs to be a bridge of trust that's built, right, to get them over the edge and say, "You know what, I'm going to make that investment, because I do see this as a brand that I want to be a part of, and a story that I want to be able to tell as I have this watch on the wrist."

I'm curious how you think about building that bridge of trust. Like, what are some of the ways that you guys are working to get people over the line and comfortable with making that investment in this watch, given it's so new and so different from what they've seen before?

Yeah, I mean, this is part of the process that we always knew was going to be critical: building trust. Because as an enthusiast myself, I would only buy watches that I trust. So the first step for us in that is being forthcoming, proactive, and engaging, you know, socially, with anyone who is interested. You know, we love talking to people on any and all of the social media platforms, being able to have conversations, you know, just like this with yourself.

And then the last thing, and probably the most important, is being out in the public as much as we possibly can. So, like, you know, we're going to be attending Windup Watch Fair in New York this year. We have attended a few shows in the past. And what's incredible is that we've started to see, you know, more and more people come to the show being like, "I want to see your watch," or "I saw you online, I now wanted to come and see it in person." And at our first show, nobody knew who we were. You know, I think we had like two people who were like, "I saw your stuff," or "It may have crossed my feed." And then, you know, ever since then, it has started to ramp, and our presence socially in the watch communities has started to penetrate deeper and deeper.

And one of my absolute favorite things, because I know that the watch is not a cheap — it's a consequential and significant amount of money. And so, you know, having the opportunity to connect with enthusiasts, because it's not about just saying, "Here's the watch, here are its attributes and features, you know, now can you see that it's worth it?" It's about understanding what it took for this to exist.

And then one of my favorite parts is that this watch, especially because of the Solar Dusted finish, we have not figured out how to actually capture that in a photograph well. And so what's great is that the watch actually presents way better in person than it does, you know, in a photo on social media. And so whereas I know that for some brands, sometimes they only post renders, and then people come and see the watch in person and they're like, "This does not hold up," we tend to have the exact opposite effect, because we can't really fully capture it with photography, but the watch in person totally speaks for itself.

It makes total sense. I'm going to be at Windup New York as well, so I'm really excited to see the watch in person. I can see how events like that are going to play a big role in your go-to-market strategy, because again, you know, people are going to be able to see and feel this thing, but also I think it's that connection to being part of something new, part of something different, the next wave that could be entering this industry that we all love. Being a part of that in some way is what can make that investment feel aligned, right, for a collector.

So this has been awesome, Mickey. It's been so fun geeking out, diving deep into the story behind the brand, but also how these watches are produced and made. And as I said at the very beginning, you're doing something different, unique. You don't find companies and brands that are changing the industry in such a way that you are. So you should feel proud of where you are today. And I'm super excited to continue to follow along and cheer for you guys as you progress.

I appreciate that, man. It's been so fun to build. It's so fun to talk and communicate about it. And the way that we think about kind of this next phase, we refer to it, you know, on our website and social media, as the era of additive watchmaking. And it's not to say that watchmaking is fundamentally changing, but that us showcasing what the technology is capable of now just opens up a completely new design landscape for anybody who's really trying to build something new and different.

And so, you know, it's not just about what we're able to do and that we own the space. It's that we are showcasing to people who may not have the convenience of my professional upbringing, to be able to be like, there's actually tremendous possibilities here, and the design opportunities for watches to come are pretty much infinite.

Absolutely. Well, thanks again for taking the time to stop by and share the story with us. And excited to see you at Windup New York soon.

Likewise, looking forward to it. Thanks, Justin.